Hello guys and gals

I'm of the persuation that the bible when interpreted from from the original languages speaks about hell very differently than we might think...

I'm not a great theologian so i've posted some very interesting websites to look at below

God bless you all

Paul

http://www.tentmaker.org/

http://www.christianuniversalist.org/

http://www.godsplanforall.com/

Dear Phat-ed,

This is a question that was much debated in the early Church. There were very influential Saints, Church Fathers, and influential teachers on both sides of the question. As an Eastern Orthodox Christian, I subscribe to what one of our best-known English-speaking theologians, Kallistos Ware, has said (and I'm paraphrasing): We can't say for certain that all people will be saved, but it's certainly right and good to hope and pray that all people will be saved in the end. From my perspective, the most we can say is that the ultimate fate of all people has not been definitely revealed to us. And so as we focus on our own salvation we hope and pray for the salvation of all humankind!

I have to believe in a God who is able to subdue all things to himself.

I can't believe that God knowing man is only human would cast all unbelievers into His customised torture chamber???

Surely paganism has corrupted christian thought.

I don't believe that God knowing the eternal destiny of billions of people would give us such a vague image of Hell.

There's 3 different words translated Hell from the Greek new testament.

All of which have very different meanings.

Below I've underlined an interesting word from Matthew 25 vs 46

⁴⁶"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

The greek word is Kolasis which rather than punishment is better translated correction!

If correction is implied by the original language how can it be eternal???

An eternity set aside from God in Hell forever??? How can that be corrective?

Where apparent contradictions surface in scripture it's usually a sign of something deeper I've found.

I mean Jesus himself said that everyone will be salted with fire.

Its the second baptism or second death. Diciples of Christ who have been forged through the sufferings of this life do not partake of the lake of fire and brimstone.

Interestingly enough the word in greek for fire is pur, where we get the words purge and purify. It's a fire of purification where the fallen nature is annihalated. Like when Paul had to chastize a particular church about a certain members conduct, he said that the person was to be delivered unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh that his spirit maybe saved in the day of the Lord.

Abraham Lincoln did not nor could not believe in the endless

punishment of anyone of the human race. He understood

punishment for sin to be a Bible doctrine; that the

punishment was parental in its object, aim, and design, and

intended for the good of the offender; hence it must cease

when justice is satisfied. All that was lost by the transgression

You invalidate the word of God

 The phrase I mentioned on my last post

You invalidate the word of God

for the sake of your tradition.

Was not directed at anyone, I was just quoting scripture sorry he he

Paul, your thesis is correct.  The church fathers of the second century, including those who knew the Apostles John and Paul all believed in universal salvation except Tertullian.  However, it's fair to say that it's highly likely that he brought the doctrine of eternal torment into Christianity from paganism.  I've studied this topic extensively in the past two years and was "converted" form a literal interpretation of unending punishment.  It would also be fair to say that while Greek was the main language of the church, Universalism was predominant.  Needless to say these facts were shocking to me having grown up a conservative baptist as God used the death of my grandmother to challenge me to re-examine my position.  I always had ruminations when I read certain passages, but my bible teachers were always quick to explain away the universalist passages.  After two years of study, I just recently fully accepted this great truth and I have seen my love for God grow exponentially since.  Thanks for bringing up this topic and if anyone else would like to discuss it further, I'm open.  Peace for now.

Tom

http://christianindependent.wordpress.com

i won't discuss the issue quoting theologians and theorical stuff but from my simple point of view i have always thought that god's first gift given to mankind wasthe free will of choosing between a life under the power of the holy spirit(love)or it's opposite,so when talking of salvation or hell or heaven,i always think that if we have chosen not to love all along our life or till the end have always worshipped the the endless list of idols of noawadays's world,god will respect our choice which is and has been not to take any care of his love and everything connected to it,this is what i believe must be thoght of hell,simply god's absence which we have personally chosen on our own,and since we know that the only eternal happyness is to be in god the poor soul who has not chosen him wll terribly suffer because of its personal choice.then the mercy of god is endless and trying to enter into it it's almost foolish(my ways are not yours and ur ways are not mines)so let's give god the ptions to look inside everyone's heart and let's do our best to pay attention to ourselves which is the very first priority.

peace to all.andrew

Believing in the KISS principle..( keep it simple stupid ) ..God made the rules.  If one has a strong belief there is a God then one should have a strong belief to follow Gods rules.  Jesus stated that Jesus and God did not want anyone to perish...but rules are rules...and obviously we do not know everything.  But this one thing I do believe there are always consequences to any decision or lack of decision you make.

In the movie the untouchables Al Capone has a meeting of his leaders around a table.  Capone knows that one of them is a traitor and takes a base ball bat and beats him to death.  Can God lie?  God and Jesus says there are consequences.  It doesnt take a base ball bat to beat it into me...but I believe anyone that believes in Jesus Christ or the God of the Bible will be saved...if Ted Bundy on his death bed believed I believed he will be in heaven....God sees what is in the heart...God knows a believer, believers and deceivers can not hide from God...that is all that is important.

We need to start reading our Bibles!  The soul that sins shall die.  Death means separation, separation of the soul from the body, separation of the spirit from God.

It seems to me that today we want to think and beleive that we (mankind) are not as bad off as God has said we are.  We are as bad off as God has said we are!  We are worse off then we think, then we could or ever could image.  God through his prophet Jeremiah has said that the heart of man is despairatly wicked, who can know it.  He has also said through his prophet Isiaiah that in His sight our rightoeusness are as filthy rags.  If all were to go into heaven why did Jesus warn us of the wide gate with the wide road which leads to distruction.  He said seek after the narrow gate and narrow raod which leads to life.  Why did he warn us of the thief that climbs over the wall into the sheepfold?  Jesus himself spoke more and warned more about avoiding hell then anyone else in the Bible.  Jesus said of himself that He is the way, He is the Truth, He is the life, no ones comes unto the Father except through Him!  Either Jesus has told us the truth or he has lied.  God has not given us the luxury of picking and choosing, nor will He ever, what he has said just because we like or do not like something he has said.  His attributes of which He has told us about Himself stand, unchanged,  We cannot pick and choose, they are what they are.  He is Holy, Righteous, and Just the attributes we don't like as well as being Merciful, Gracious, Loving, and Forgiving the attributes we like.  He is all of His attributes!   Christianity is not a buffet religion.  God is who he has said he is, we have to accept that, totally.  He has commanded us to be Holy, just as He is Holy.  He does not or ever has graded on a curve, He has always required 100% to pass, and we have all sinned and have miss the mark.  He has declared all of us to be sinners.  We are all in danger of hell.  We all need a Saviour who is Christ Jesus, alone.  God has declaired Himself to be Who He is, we have to accept that, totally, we can not pick and choose.  If we don't then just be honest with yourself and God and confess that you are not a Christian in the Biblical sense of the word, and leave the church!

I know I have come on strong, but in this day of false teaching and error we have to have someone to be strong.  Christianity in America stinks, it is weak, it is tepid, it is anemic, it is compromising, it no longer preaches or teaches the truth because it no longer beleives the truth.  By and large the church in America can be compaired to the Church in Laodicea, Jesus Christ has been kicked out of the Church that He bled and died for.  He has been replaced with all mannor of falsehood, easy beleiveism, your not as bad as God says you are, blab it and grad it, God wants you rich like Jesus was rich, and everything else that can be imagened.  He stills stands outside of the door of His Church and knocks on that door.  We have to open that door, we have to humble ourselves, we have to repent and turn from our sins, and He will forgive us of our sins.

We also have to be careful of so called teachers-preachers-professors who reject the teaching of the Bible for something more palatable to their hearers-readers.  God has declaired that there will be a greater judgement for them, woe be unto them who lead others astray.  Beware of teachers who only tickle your ears and tell you what you want to hear, but will never tell you the truth of the Word of God because it might offend you.  The Gospel is offensive, Paul the Apostle has told us that it is offensive to those who are perishing.  These teachers-preachers-professors fear men far more then they fear God!  Their fear needs to be in God and not in man!

God has said that His people are perishing because of a lack of the teaching of His Word.  We need to hear the WORD of the LORD again in this world, and stop bowing down before every idol of man that comes along.  We need to REPENT, and return to God!  We need preachers in this land of the ilk of Johathan Edwards.

Another point is do we really think that people who hate God, who hate Christians would want to be in the eternal presence of God Almighty?  That would in fact be hell to them!